Is a person homosexual by choice?
We get different answers to this question depending on whom we ask.
If you ask homosexuals this question, the answer is clear: no homosexual chooses his/her sexual orientation. Who would be foolish enough to choose to become gay when the life for homosexuals is so much harder than for heterosexuals? Gay people are often teased at school. In numerous cases, homosexuals’ own families and friends distance themselves and even reject them. Getting a job is often more difficult for gay people than for straight people. And, gay people may lose their job when their orientation is discovered. Often heterosexuals look at homosexuals with contempt and may also express their aversion to them verbally. In some countries, gay people are persecuted, imprisoned and even sentenced to death. Homosexuals rightly ask who would choose this.
The vast majority of homosexuals figure out they are gay during puberty, when their attractions start to stir in them. While heterosexual young people have heterosexual dreams, homosexual young people have homosexual dreams. When heterosexual young people notice beautiful people of the opposite sex, homosexual young people spot beautiful people of their own sex. Seeing the beauty of the opposite sex causes arousal for straight people, while seeing the beauty of the same sex causes the same reaction for gay people. For many gay people, even the thought of having sex with the opposite sex feels as disgusting as it would for straight people having sex with the same sex.
For many young homosexual people, the realisation of their sexual orientation comes as a shock. In most cases, accepting this takes years. Some can admit this to themselves only at a mature age. A few are never capable of this. People’s internal control mechanism is extremely strong in some cases.
When you ask heterosexual people whether a homosexual orientation is a choice, their answers are not always as clear as homosexual people’s answer. The vast majority of westerners seem to realize now that sexual orientation is not a choice and therefore homosexuals should be allowed to marry or officially register their relationships. However, many disagree, especially in Christian circle. They often refer to Paul’s statement that homosexuals have “exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones” (Rom. 1:26-27, NIV). Paul’s words, however, are in deep conflict with gay people’s experience if Paul’s words are understood to mean that homosexuals have voluntarily exchanged their sexual orientation. As I pointed out earlier, it would be foolish to become a homosexual voluntarily, because the life of a homosexual is often much harder than that of a heterosexual.
Some Christians do believe that sexual orientation cannot be chosen, but that this still does not give gay people permission to live in accordance with their orientation in a legal and committed relationship. This view, however, causes a difficult theological and practical problem. In 1 Cor. 7:7-8, Paul wishes that all unmarried Christians would remain unmarried as he is. But, as a realistic person, he realizes that God has not granted the gift of celibacy to everyone. For this reason, he instructs the Corinthians that if the unmarried and the widows cannot control their sexual impulses, “they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion” (7:9). Paul understood that it is better to marry than to live tormented by sexual passions because they would easily lead to promiscuity and relationships without commitment.
But, what about homosexuals to whom God has not bestowed the gift of singleness and celibacy? Confronted with this question, the logic of many Christians starts to fall apart. Their counsel to gay people is that although Paul allowed heterosexual single people to marry, this counsel cannot be applied to gay people. According to them, homosexuals must remain celibate for the rest of their lives. However, many gay people have the same desire to live in a loving relationship like heterosexual people do.
Joe, an American friend of mine, used to work in a leadership position at the headquarters of the Southern Baptist Convention. When Joe revealed his homosexual orientation to his leaders, they told him they allow him to continue his job if he promised in writing to remain celibate for the rest of his life. Joe said he was ready to sign this paper if his co-workers were also required to sign it. For some strange reason, none of his coworkers were ready to do this. Joe said that it was unfair that only he was required to make such a promise. Today Joe is happily married to a man.
Some readers may object and say that many heterosexual people must also live as singles because they have not found a spouse. This is true, but there is a difference: heterosexuals are allowed to live in hope until their last breath that one day they will find a prince or princess of their life. This hope carries them forward. Some people do not want to give this same hope to homosexuals.
Why are some people homosexuals?
No one can provide a definite answer to this question. Some Christians believe that no one is born homosexual, but that some people choose to be homosexual. Among the great number of homosexuals whom I know, I do not know anyone who agrees with this view. Nor have I ever heard of any heterosexuals who work among homosexuals who claim that homosexuals have chosen their sexual orientation. This view is usually held by people whose knowledge of homosexuality is very minimal and they do not know any homosexuals personally.
According to one theory, early childhood growth environment and experiences are the reason why some people become homosexuals. For example, if the father is cold and distant, his son may look for a substitute father in other men whom he eroticises, especially if the son was sexually abused when he was young. I regarded this as a potential explanation for a long time, but the validity of this theory started to break down when I discussed this with people from different backgrounds. Many of my heterosexual friends have grown up in broken families where the father drank and was violent, and yet, these friends of mine are totally heterosexual. In some other cases, other men tried to sexually abuse my friends and yet they still turned out to be heterosexuals.
On the other hand, many of my homosexual friends have grown up in good and loving families and yet they turned out to be homosexuals. This is true in my case too.
Many scholars are now inclined to believe that genetic reasons or hormonal changes during pregnancy may explain why some people’s children are homosexuals. Several studies seem to support this theory. This would also explain why most gay people feel that they have been homosexual since their childhood. This would also explain why homosexuality occurs in other species as well.
Can a homosexual person become a heterosexual person?
In the western world, there are numerous Christian ex-gay organisations that are usually led by people who describe themselves as ex-gay. The goal of these organisations is to help homosexuals to move towards heterosexuality. Gay people are encouraged through therapy and prayer to reject their homosexual identity and behaviour. Almost all leaders and members of these organisations eventually admit that even after many years of therapy, their sexual orientation has not changed or has changed only a little. They still have homosexual dreams. Seeing a naked person of the same sex arouses them much more than one of the opposite sex. Still, they want to call themselves ex-gay because they do not engage in homosexual sex, or if they do fall into temptations, they want to rid themselves of that kind of behaviour. In other words, they call themselves ex-gay – not because they have zero homosexual feelings, but because they do not want to be homosexuals – usually for religious reasons.
Exodus International was, until 2013, the biggest Christian ex-gay organization. Thousands of people attended their events annually. The organization also acted as an umbrella organization for a number of other similar organizations. In 2013, Exodus closed its doors. The board of the organization decided to close down its activities when it was discovered how few lasting results Exodus International had actually achieved. Many of the active members had left the organization in despair because they had not experienced a promised change in sexual orientation. Alan Chambers, the last president of the organization, admitted in an interview that 99.9% of the homosexuals he knew had not experienced a change in their sexual orientation.
I know homosexuals who have married people of the opposite sex in hopes that marriage would change their sexual orientation. However, I do not know of any in which this change has actually happened. Some of these gay friends of mine live in a relatively happy marriage with the opposite sex, but often the spouse is more like a good friend to them than a spouse in the usual sense of the word.
Some of these friends of mine are at least physically faithful to their spouses, but not necessarily mentally faithful. When making love, they close their eyes and imagine that they are making love with a person of the same sex. Some fall into extramarital relationships.
The leader of a Christian organization once shared his struggle with me. Many regard him and his family as idyllic, but the reality is a different story. In his weak moments, my friend has had casual sex with men even though he has a genuine desire to avoid them. In recent years, he has become a vocal opponent of homosexuality. My interpretation is that with his resolute attitude, my friend is desperately attempting to strengthen his own moral spine in order to keep himself from falling. I would not be surprised if his story ends up going the same way as that of Chris, another good friend of mine.
Chris realized early in his youth that he was gay, but he wanted to somehow get rid of his feelings. He married a woman, hoping that his homosexual feelings would go away. For a while, things went relatively well. At one point, Chris even believed that his homosexuality had finally gone away even though he still did not desire sex with his wife. Emotionally, however, Chris and his wife were connected and close to each other. Chris was faithful to his wife.
After graduating from university, Chris first worked as a teacher, then as a vice principal, and later as the director of a large Christian nursing home until his retirement. Being absorbed in his work helped him suppress his homosexual feelings, but then his health started to fall apart. His ex-wife told me that Chris started to have unexplained blackouts. Three times he was taken to the hospital by ambulance. Once she found her husband half-conscious on the floor. Chris’ family believed that he would soon die. The doctors performed hundreds of tests, but no explanation for the blackouts was found. At this point, Chris decided to tell his wife about his homosexual orientation. This came as a shock to his wife, but in the end, she accepted the fact. After many discussions, they decided to divorce on good terms. Today Chris lives in a committed relationship with a male and his health is normal once again. He is a happy man.
Everything is possible for God. He can even change stones to bread. However, the fact remains that it is more difficult to find a needle in a haystack than for a person to experience a real and lasting change in his or her sexual orientation.
Theological considerations
The purpose of all moral commandments of the Bible is to help people to realise what is best for them. According to Jesus, all biblical moral teaching is crystallised in one sentence: Love your God above everything and your neighbour as yourself (Matt. 22:37). Paul is on the same page when he writes that all the commandments of the law stem from one commandment, which is: “Love your neighbour as yourself” (Rom. 13:9). For this reason, one who loves one’s neighbour has fulfilled the requirements of the law (Rom. 13:8, 10; Gal. 5:14).
If I love God above all things, then I will not be willing to bow down to other gods – created or man-made – and to regard them as the highest authority in my life. If I love my neighbour as myself, then I will not speak disparagingly of others, set myself above others, treat others as second class citizens, demonise or threaten others. If I love myself, I will avoid everything that could harm me spiritually, emotionally or physically. If the double / triple-edged commandment of love is the guiding principle of our lives, then we do not even need the other laws and regulations, because the principle of love guides our actions and choices. The Old Testament laws and New Testament instructions are merely examples of what loving God, others and ourselves look like in practice. Not all moral commandments, however, are eternal and universal, even if God would have given them in certain historical circumstances. Some of them are clearly cultural- and time-dependant. Some may even express the moral views of the ancient Israelites more than God’s absolute will. I will come back to this in more detail later.
With respect to the debate about gay marriage, people in opposite camps have shown very little real love for each other. It is sad to see how few Christians have shown any desire to see the issue from the perspective of homosexuals. They do not want to explore the subject or to know any gay people. The only thing that homosexuals hear from the mouths of these people is condemnation and disapproval. These Christians are today’s Pharisees who cling to their view of the Bible’s teaching, but forget what is most important in the law: mercy, justice and faithfulness (Matt. 23:23). They tie up heavy loads and put them on homosexuals’ shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them (Matt. 23:4). They believe they know what is best for homosexuals even though they may not know any homosexual people personally. I constantly hear stories about how cruel some Christians are towards homosexuals. Some parents abandon their gay children and many churches kick out gay people. No wonder many homosexuals have a very hostile attitude towards Christians and regard them as the worst kind of Pharisees.
Many homosexuals feel that in order to love themselves, to be mentally healthy and happy, they have to accept themselves as being different and live accordingly. Does this mean that homosexuals should have casual sex partners? Certainly not. Promiscuity, whether it is heterosexual or homosexual, cannot be justified by the principle of loving your neighbour because casual sex, in one way or another, always harms the individuals involved. But it is also true that many gay Christians who have accepted their sexuality and have decided to live in a committed relationship with another person of the same sex feel deep happiness and contentment. One example is my friend Chris who I mentioned above. Today he is genuinely a very happy and balanced Christian.
Not all biblical moral rules are eternal and universal:
I argued above that not all moral commandments in the Bible are eternal and universal. Some of them reveal what was regarded as loving and acceptable behaviour during the time and culture when the commandments were given, but they are not universally applicable throughout the ages. I will give a few examples.
Marriage with close relatives: The law of Moses bans the next-of-kin marriages. A man was not allowed, for example, to marry his brother’s wife even after the death of her husband (Lev. 18:16; 20:21). However, there was an astonishing exception to this rule. If a man’s brother died without a male heir, the man’s duty was to sleep with his brother’s wife and provide a child for her (Deut. 25:5-10). This was required even if the man already had a wife. According to our moral standards, this kind of practice would be unthinkable. If a pastor encouraged this kind of behaviour today, he would immediately be called down from the pulpit. However, when we consider this law of Moses in light of the social structure and context of the ancient Israelites, this law reflects the principle of loving one’s neighbour. The purpose of this law was to protect the rights of the widow and guarantee that properties would not be monopolised by the few and rich. This law, however, cannot be regarded as universal and eternal even if we believe that it was given by God. This law was also not new. Even before the law of Moses was given, the Israelites (Gen. 38:1-10), as well as the pagan nations living around them, observed it. This practice, which according to our moral standards is objectionable, was widely accepted in the ancient world. The law of Moses, therefore, was a gracious concession to the already prevailing practice. This law is not repealed in the New Testament and yet Christians believe that we do not need to follow it.
The next-of-kin marriage ban in the law of Moses is in an interesting conflict with the creation story. If we believe literally in the biblical creation story, we are forced to conclude that Eve and Adam’s children married each other. This, however, was sinful in the light of the law which God gave Moses later. Did God act against his moral principles by creating the human race so that Adam and Eve’s children had no choice but to marry each other? This and other similar inconsistencies around moral issues in the Bible lead us to a very difficult question.
The vast majority of Christians believe that God’s character is immutable. He is the same yesterday, today and for ever (Mal. 3:6; Heb. 13:8; Jas 1:17). Our moral perceptions can change, but to God, black is always black and white is always white. How then is it possible that God seems to change his moral instructions in the Bible?
There are three options for interpretations: (1) God and God’s moral standards are not, in fact, immutable. In this sense, he is like we human beings who change. There are several stories in the Old Testament in which God seems to change God’s mind (e.g. Gen. 6:6; Exo. 32:11-14; 2 Sam. 24:15-16). The adoption of this option, however, is impossible for me and for the vast majority of Christians because – if God could change – they would no longer be God with a capital G. (2) Biblical moral instructions are believers’ views of what kinds of behaviour God regards as right or wrong. Because people’s perceptions of what is in accordance with the will of God can change over the course of history, we find conflicting moral instructions in the Bible. (According to this view, the fact that people’s views about God change also explains why God seems to change God’s mind in the Bible). (3) God has only one core moral principle – human beings must love their Creator above everything and their neighbours as themselves – but God graciously adapts this principle in varying ways depending on the cultural and historical circumstances of humankind. Let’s take the creation story as an example. If we believe the creation story is literal, we could speculate that in the beginning God allowed next-of-kin marriages because there were no genetic risk factors for humankind immediately after creation. Marriages between close relatives, however, were later banned when the abundance of birth defects became apparent. God’s character did not change, but what was regarded as an appropriate action according to “love your neighbours” was graciously adapted by God in new historical circumstances.
In my opinion, neither of the two last interpretation options above should be ruled out. Perhaps we can find both examples in the Bible.
The following examples will also show that not all biblical moral regulations are eternal and universal.
Slavery: Slavery has been practised since the beginning of humankind. The law of Moses, which was given by God, allowed the Israelites to keep slaves. It made a relatively clear distinction between Jewish and non-Jewish slaves. The Israelites were allowed to be kept in slavery for up to six years, after which time they became free (Exo. 21:1-8). The Jewish slaves, who are called servants in many translations, were not allowed to be treated cruelly in an arbitrary manner (Lev. 25:43). It seems that the law also obligated the Israelites to treat their non-Jewish slaves better than they were treated in many surrounding nations. The New Testament does not speak against slavery. Even some Christians had slaves (Philemon), but they had to treat them well.
Slavery was not necessarily seen as evil in ancient Israelite society. Its purpose was to help impoverished Jews survive (Lev. 25:39-41). From this perspective, slavery was an expression of love towards vulnerable people in Jewish society. This moral law is not repealed in the New Testament and yet modern Christians regard slavery as extremely immoral and an unchristian practice in the modern world. A pastor who defends slavery today would not be regarded as a real Christian. This example shows again that not all moral concepts are considered unchanging even among God’s people.
Would God allow Christians to have slaves in the current historical and social context although slavery is considered to be contrary to the moral standards of the civilised world? Hardly. Christians who kept slaves today would be miserable witnesses of God’s love. Newspapers would write about them in a very negative way and people would laugh at their testimony. If this argument is true, it strengthens the view that God will often work within the moral values of a given society if these values are not in a stark contrast with his core moral principle (i.e., people should love their Creator above everything else and their neighbours as themselves).
Female ministers: Ancient Jewish society was very patriarchal. Against this background, it is remarkable that Deborah, a female judge and prophet whose responsibility was to instruct and judge people according to the law of Moses, became the spiritual leader of the Israelites (Judges 4 and 5). In light of the Book of Judges, there is no doubt that God had called and gifted Deborah to be a teacher (Judges 4:4-5). However, according to Paul’s teaching, females are not allowed to be teachers. Both in 1 Corinthians 14:33b-38 and 1 Timothy 2:11-14, Paul uses strong words to ban females from speaking in the church. Paul claims that his instructions are the Lord’s commandment (1 Cor. 14:37), and supports his view theologically by referring to the creation story (1 Tim. 2:13-14) and the law of Moses (1 Cor. 14:34). Were Paul’s instructions divinely inspired? If they were, how is it possible that earlier God had appointed Deborah to be the teacher of the law of Moses? How can God support females in ministry at one point and then oppose it at another point?
One possible interpretation, as I already mentioned above, is that the statements about females’ suitability for spiritual leadership positions are views of the contemporaries of the biblical writers rather than revelations of God’s absolute will. Another possible interpretation of these conflicting statements is that God has nothing against female ministers, but he graciously works within cultural circumstances. In Roman and Jewish societies of Paul’s time, having female ministers would have scandalised people. Paul’s purpose was to avoid the development of a situation where the general society would start to see the church as a social protest movement. Paul instructed the Corinthian Christians, “Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God” (1 Cor. 10:32, NASB).
Polygamy: God created one wife for Adam, but soon polygamy became a common practice. Abraham (Gen. 25:6), Jacob, Gideon, David and Solomon had numerous wives and concubines. God does not condemn this practice at any point before giving the law of Moses. Neither does God ban nor condemn polygamy in the law he gave. At most, the law only regulates this practice and intends to improve the wife’s conditions within polygamy (Lev. 18:17; Deut. 17:17; 21:16-17). Among the Jews, polygamy continued until A.D. 1000 when a Jewish synod called Rabbeinu Gershom banned it. However, even after that, polygamy continued to be practised among some Jewish sects.
In Jesus’ time, King Herod the Great had at least ten wives. However, polygamy may not have been very common among ordinary Jews of that time (but see also Josephus, Ant. 17.1.2; Justin Martyr, Dial. 134). One of the main reasons for this might have been the fact that the Roman government, under which the Jews lived, had banned polygamy. Many Christians today assume that monogamy is an institution created by Christianity, but the reality is that monogamy was a law of the Roman Empire. The Romans regarded polygamy as a barbaric practice and therefore banned it before the birth of Christianity. Paul who worked as a missionary in the Roman Empire did not stand against the civic government on this issue. For this reason, he wrote to Timothy instructing that the overseer of a congregation must be the husband of but one wife (1 Tim. 3:2). Today the vast majority of people in the world regard polygamy as unthinkable. Again, any pastor who defended polygamy on a biblical basis in our present society would soon be unemployed.
In the ancient world, where there were frequent wars and there was no social security available for women, polygamy also had a positive side. During wars and following them, many women would have been in a really miserable situation, if the remaining males had been allowed to have only one wife. At least in this respect, polygamy was an expression of love for one’s neighbour at that time.
Once again this example demonstrates that moral issues are not always black and white even though some Christians try to argue this. According to our standards, polygamy is objectionable, but God was clearly willing to work with this custom as long as it was not in absolute conflict with the principle of love of neighbour.
Divorce and remarriage: The law of Moses, which was given by God, allowed divorce and remarriage with a new partner (Deut. 24:1-4). Paul allowed divorce in extreme cases, but not remarriage, except with the original spouse (1 Cor. 7:10-11). Bible scholars agree that Jesus considered remarriage as equal to fornication (Matt. 5:31-32; 19:3-12; Mark 10:2-12; Luke 16:18). They only debate whether Jesus gave permission for the so-called innocent party to remarry.
In light of these two different kinds of laws on divorce, Christians who believe that all biblical moral instructions are unchangeable and expressions of divine will may find themselves at an impasse. Appealing to the statement in Matt. 19:7-8 that Moses allowed divorce and remarriage only because of the hardness of people’s hearts does not solve the problem. We have to remember that, according to the traditional Jewish and Christian view, the law of Moses was given by God. How then is it possible that God, whose moral principles are unchangeable – as we believe – allowed the practice of fornication in the form of remarriage during the era of the law, but does not allow it any longer? In order to be consistent, we have to either reject our view of an unchangeable God or to find another logical explanation for the changes to the law. Finding an alternative logical explanation is not easy.
My own proposal is as follows. In his teaching, Jesus often used hyperbole to shock people and force them to think. For example, he taught that if our hand or eye tempts us, we should remove them from our body (Matt. 5:28-30). However, no one takes this teaching of Jesus so literally that they would cut off their body parts that cause temptation. Jesus uses an exaggerated figure of speech here in order to wake up his audience and get them to think about the consequences of sin.
Jesus also taught in his sermon on the Mount that his followers should never swear an oath (Matt. 5:33-37) even though the law of Moses allowed it (Num. 30). However, Paul did not interpret Jesus’ prohibition so literally that he would have never sworn an oath. He swears oaths and abjures in several occasions (Acts 18:18, compare with Num. 6:1-21; Acts 21:23-24; Rom. 1:9; 2 Cor. 1:23; Gal. 1:20; Phil. 1:8; 1 Thess. 5:27; 1 Tim. 5:21; 2 Tim. 4:1). Jesus used hyperbole and exaggerated language about this subject because people were abusing their freedom to swear oaths in his time.
Likewise, some of Jesus’ contemporaries divorced too easily. According to Hillel, a famous Jewish teacher and Pharisee who lived around 110 B.C. and A.D. 10, burning a meal was a good enough reason to divorce one’s wife.
Against this background, it is easy to understand why Jesus used such hyperbole about divorce and remarriage. However, in light of the examples above, I do not believe that divorce and remarriage are always absolutely wrong. Both the instruction of the law of Moses and of Jesus concerning divorce and remarriage can be defended on the basis of the principle of love of one’s neighbour, but the same cannot be said about Hillel’s view. No one should divorce and remarry lightly.
These examples show that not all of the biblical moral instructions are eternal and universal. They must always be interpreted in light of the historical and cultural circumstances of the time when they were given. If this is true regarding the issues of marriage, slavery and females in ministry as we have seen, why could we not apply this principle to homosexual relations as well? The only commandment that is eternal and universal is this: Love your God above all and your neighbour as yourself.
Biblical verses which condemn homosexuality:
The Bible has a few sections that speak of homosexual behaviour in a negative tone, or forbid it altogether. I shall discuss these sections only briefly in my article because there is a lot of good literature available about the interpretation of these sections. I would like to recommend Matthew Vines’ God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships, and Mark Achtemeier’s The Bible’s Yes to Same-Sex Marriage: An Evangelical’s Change of Heart. The former is written by a homosexual whereas the latter is written by a heterosexual.
Genesis 19:1-29: Almost everyone is familiar with the story about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. God destroyed these cities because of their wickedness. Many casual Bible readers believe that homosexual behaviour was the specific sin for which these cities were destroyed. However, according to the prophet Ezekiel, the sin of these cities was that they “were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me” (Eze. 16:49-50). Ezekiel does not say at least in plain language that homosexual behaviour was the cause of the destruction of these cities.
According to the Genesis story, all the men of Sodom tried to rape the angels who came in the form of males to visit Lot. Rape – heterosexual or homosexual – cannot be justified in any way through the principle of neighbour love. Heterosexual men have also carried out gang rapes, but no one uses this as an argument against heterosexual relationships. Likewise, the homosexual gang rape in the Sodom story should not be used against loving and monogamous homosexual unions.
Many Bible scholars have noticed that in the Genesis story, all the men of Sodom came to rape the angels who had appeared in the form of males. This is a strange statement. According to modern scientific studies, no more than 5-6% of the population identifies themselves as homosexually orientated. Even in San Francisco, which probably has the highest concentration of homosexuals in the present day, the percentage of homosexuals is not very high. In light of this fact, it is very unlikely that the men of Sodom wanted to rape the angels because all of them were homosexuals. Gang rape was a form of humiliation of the strangers. Similar cases can also be found elsewhere in history.
Judges 19 and 20: An unnamed Levite married a woman from Bethlehem. After some time, the woman ran away back to her father. The Levite went out to get her back. On the way back home, he and his companions went to Gibeah’s square hoping that somebody would invite them to stay overnight at their home. However, not one of the original inhabitants of the city welcomed them, which was unthinkable in that culture. At last, an old man who lived as a foreigner in the city came to the square and welcomed the Levite to stay overnight at his place. At night, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house and wanted to have sex with the Levite and kill him. The Levite escaped from the gang rape by handing over his concubine to the wicked men and they raped her throughout the night. The concubine died of her injuries.
It is very questionable to use this story against loving and monogamous homosexual unions. The behaviour of these wicked men cannot be defended in any way. Once again, when we read this story, we may wonder why the men wanted to rape the Levite. Obviously the original inhabitants of the city took a hostile attitude towards the Levite, seeing as none of them wanted to welcome him and his companions to stay overnight at their houses. Most likely the wicked men’s only intention was to humiliate the stranger; not to satisfy their homosexual desires. It is unlikely that these men actually were homosexuals because they were satisfied having sex with the Levite’s female concubine.
Leviticus 18:22; 20:13: Chapter 18 begins with God’s warning that the Israelites should not follow the practices of the Egyptians and Canaanites (v. 3). Some, but not all of the practices listed in chapters 18 to 20 were directly related to idolatry. Chapters 18 and 20 focus especially on forbidden sexual relations. According to chapter 18, the forbidden practices are: (a) sex with close relatives (vv. 6-18), sex with one’s wife when she is having her period (v. 19), sex with one’s neighbour’s wife (v. 20); sacrificing children to the idol Molech (v. 21); sex with a person of the same sex (v. 22) and sex with animals (v. 23). Most of these prohibitions are repeated in chapter 20. The prohibition of incest can easily be defended through the principle of neighbour love. Children who are born from next-of-kin marriages often have genetic disorders.
One of the banned sexual relations was between siblings and half-siblings. According to the law of Moses, the marriage between siblings and half-siblings was so great a sin that both partners were to be executed (Lev. 20:17). Against this background, it is interesting that Abraham was married to his half-sister (Gen. 20:12) and this is not condemned in any way in the story of Abraham. Even God calls Sarah Abraham’s wife. If Abraham’s marriage with Sarah was a deadly sin, why did God never say anything about it to Abraham? On the contrary, according to Gen. 26:5, God himself testified that Abraham had followed his regulations and laws.
The law of Moses also banned a man from marrying his wife’s sister (Lev. 18:18). Once again, in light of this law, it is interesting that Jacob married both Leah and Rachel who were siblings. These women were also Jacob’s second cousins. Though this marriage was not always happy, it is also not directly condemned in any way. God continued working actively in the lives of Jacob, Leah (Gen. 29:31) and Rachel (Gen. 30:22).
These contradictions between the law of Moses and the earlier practices, which even God had accepted, present us with a difficult theological question. If God and his moral principles cannot change, why do we find different moral principles in the Bible that seem to have God’s approval? Do some of the moral instructions reflect the views of God’s people about what they believe to be God’s will rather than the actual will of God? Does God accept the practices and laws of a society so long as they are not in clear conflict with God’s core principle of love?
In this section of Leviticus, having sex with a person of the same sex is also banned. This prohibition can either be interpreted as an eternal and universal principle or as a limited one of which purpose was to correct certain ills in society. I support the latter option.
At the time of the giving of the law of Moses, temple prostitution was very common among the neighbouring pagan nations. There are several references to this practice in the Old Testament (e.g. Exo. 34:15-16; Deut. 23:17-18; 1 Kings 15:23-24; 15:12). There were both male and female prostitutes in the temples. There is no sure historical proof that these male prostitutes also offered services to males worshippers, but this is not entirely unlikely. However, it is certain, as we already learned above, that sometimes even heterosexual men disgraced and humiliated men by raping them. Pagan soldiers also raped enemy soldiers in order to humiliate them and slave masters raped their male servants.
Therefore, it is no wonder that in a historical context where there were no positive examples of committed, monogamous homosexual unions, the Jews’ view of homosexuality was very negative. The Hebrew verb shakab that is used in our verses for sex between people of the same sex is used elsewhere in the Old Testament for extramarital, casual sex (see R. Laird Harris, et al. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, vol. 2, p. 921).
Promiscuity cannot be justified by the principle of neighbour love, but it is not logical, in light of everything said above, for Christians to condemn all homosexual relationships on the basis of these few verses in Leviticus.
Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Timothy 1:10; Jude 7: Homosexuality was tolerated in Greek and Roman societies, but normally only in one form: a married man was allowed to use young boys for his sexual pleasure until the boys reached the age of marriage. After that, the relationship had to end. Once again, this kind of practice cannot be justified by the principle of love of one’s neighbour. Greco-Roman homosexual relations were not lifelong unions between two equal persons, but in them, the older, married man used younger boys for his sexual pleasure. Against this background, it is very understandable why Paul and Jude wrote very negatively about homosexuality in these verses. It is equated with debauchery. The Bible is against debauchery because it is a form of selfishness. It is not motivated by the desire to love one’s neighbour as oneself.
Because of the cultural context in which these verses were written, they cannot be used against current homosexual unions where two equal persons promise to love each other for better or for worse until death. In this kind of relationship, one is not using the other. The union is based on the principle of love of neighbourly love. This kind of love does not harm but heals people and brings inner peace. Many homosexuals who live in a faithful union have experienced this.
For further consideration:
According to Paul, all moral commands of the law stem from this command: love your neighbour as yourself (Rom 13:8-10; Gal. 5:14). However, there are some commandments and stories in the Old Testament which today are difficult, if not even impossible, to defend on basis of the love commandment. I will take, as an example, the commandment of the law of Moses to stone to death a family’s rebellious child (Deut. 21:18-21). In light of the teaching of the New Testament and our moral understanding, this commandment sounds totally inconceivable. Since there are no extant narratives, scriptural or otherwise, where this practice was followed, it may not be unreasonable to suggest that it was rarely or ever carried out. Not even David executed his disobedient and rebellious children.
In some Old Testament stories, God orders the Israelites to slay all enemies without mercy (e.g. 1 Sam. 15:2-3), but, in the New Testament, God is depicted as personified love (1 John 4:8,16) and Jesus exhorts his followers to love even those who hate them (e.g. Matt. 5:38-48; Rom. 12:20). Jesus also prohibits the use of all violence by his followers (Matt. 26:52). How is it possible that the same God, whose moral values remain unchanged, could give such contradictory orders?
It is even more difficult to comprehend how God, on the one hand, himself kills (e.g. Exo. 12:29-30; Lev. 16:27-33) or orders to kill (e.g. Lev. 31:17; Deut. 13:12-15; Joshua 8:1-2, 26; 1 Sam. 15:2-3; Hos. 13:16) the family’s innocent children together with their guilty parents, but says elsewhere that children should not be killed because of the sins of their parents (Deut. 24:16; Eze. 18:1-20). How can God, whose moral standards do not change, give such conflicting commandments? These and many other similar kinds of inconsistent moral instructions seem to indicate that not all of the biblical moral commandments are from God’s lips; rather they reflect moral standards of the contemporaries of the biblical era. If so, then we are perhaps justified to ask whether the sections which discuss homosexuality are God’s view or the Israelites’.
Consistency for interpretation:
I would invite those who oppose gay marriages to be consistent in their biblical interpretation. Today it is nearly impossible to find Christian leaders or lay Christians who oppose heterosexuals’ remarriage as vigorously as they oppose gay marriage. They are ready to bless the unions of divorced people or to be present in their weddings, but, at the same time, they would not attend same-sex weddings under any circumstances. And yet, if the view is taken that Jesus’s teaching on remarriage must be taken literally, this means that the blessing of the remarried couple is the blessing of an adulterous relationship. Many biblical scholars acknowledge that this is the logical conclusion we come to if we take Jesus’ words very literally. However, these same scholars also argue that remarriage is not a continuous state of adultery, especially if the couple regrets their action afterwards. Remarried heterosexual couples are let off the hook easily. In the interest of consistency, these couples should be treated as Ezra treated those Jewish men who had married foreign women. He ordered them to divorce because these kinds of marriages were against the law of Moses (Ezra 10). However, I do not support this kind of literalism (compare with Paul’s instructions for mixed-marriage couples in 1 Cor. 7:12-16). We can only imagine what chaos and agony this kind of literalism would lead in our society.
Many Christians show similar inconsistency on the issue of the female priesthood. As we considered above, it is quite clear that Paul did not accept women for teaching positions in the church and, yet, today we can find them in that position everywhere, even in Evangelical churches that oppose gay marriages. In the interest of consistency, these inconsistent churches should start to fight against remarriages and female priesthood as vigorously as they fight against gay marriages.
Those who oppose gay marriages argue that homosexual unions are against the order of creation because homosexual couples cannot produce children. It is true that homosexual couples cannot produce children, but God did not create Eve for Adam primarily to bear children. God created a spouse because it is not good for someone to be alone (Gen. 2:18). If the possibility of producing children were a condition for getting married, then to be consistent we should also prohibit marriages for women who have already reached menopause and for others who cannot have children or do not want to have children.
Many heterosexuals consider homosexual relationships objectionable and unnatural, but most homosexuals do not. Love between same-sex couples is as natural for homosexuals as love between opposite-sex couples is for heterosexuals. For many homosexuals, even the thought of having sex with the opposite sex seems disgusting. What seems natural depends on from which side of the fence the issue is considered. If we want to regard homosexual unions as being against the order of creation, then we have to remind ourselves that polygamy and slavery are also against the order of creation and yet God allowed them in the law that God gave through Moses.
Conclusion:
Homosexuals have not chosen their sexual orientation. Many of them have the same desire as heterosexuals’ to live in a loving and faithful relationship.
Moral issues should always be approached and interpreted through the lens of love of the neighbour love commandment that Jesus gave. According to Paul, all of the biblical moral instructions stem from this commandment (Rom. 13:8-10). To say the same in negative terms, we should avoid all activities that harm ourselves or our neighbours. Because I cannot see how monogamous, faithful and loving homosexual unions could harm the partners, I also cannot find any logical theological arguments against gay marriages.
In the title of this article I asked whether a person can be gay and Christian at the same time. Some Christians argue that this is impossible. I must strongly disagree. I have attended countless gay Christian events. From time to time, the presence of God’s Spirit has been very evident in those events. Sometimes heterosexuals who have attended those events have told me with tears in their eyes that they have seldom before experienced anything similar. The Spirit still blows wherever it pleases. We can experience his presence and power, but we cannot control and limit him (Joh. 3:8). If the Spirit works among gay Christians, how can some churches kick them out of their churches?
The gay marriage issue divides Christians. In the same way, the issues of circumcision and food laws divided Christians in the apostolic era. Paul and his co-workers believed that circumcision of the heart had replaced circumcision of the flesh and that Christians did not need to observe the food regulations of the law of Moses, but the majority of the Jerusalemite Christians disagreed with Paul (Acts 21:17-36). Paul instructed Christians to accept different opinions and interpretations on those issues (Rom. 14 and 15). I hope the same kind of open-mindedness prevails in the discussion on same-sex marriage.
This article was originally posted here.
Kari Tolppanen
Kari holds a Ph.D. in Theology from the University of St. Michael's College in the University of Toronto and a Master of Divinity from ACTS Seminaries in Trinity Western University, B.C., Canada.
Latest posts by Kari Tolppanen (see all)
- Can a Person Be Both Gay and Christian? - March 6, 2017
You may find this interesting:
http://kantwesley.com/Wesley/ChristianLiberty.html
Thank you Philip for this link.
Brilliant thank you 🙂 Comprehensive and clear! I was reading as well that Romans 1 Paul has a dig at Caligula the Roman Emperor at the time.
Thank you Paul.
This was an interesting article. I agree that the first 2 commandments are foundational. I also whole heartedly believe that anyone, no matter the sin or background or where they are at, can have an eternal relationship with Christ so long as they believe in him (John 3:16 for you scholars). You did make valid arguments about slavery, marriage, divorce, remarriage, women ministers and polygamy. The thing about these arguments is that, whether positive or not, they moved society along. For example polygamy allowed for the world to be more populated and perhaps human genes were less susceptible to the development of defects back then (an argument for another time). How does homosexuality in its form today (homosexual, bisexuality, transgender, no gender) move society along? What good will come of it?
I had been a transgender as long as I can remember. About 3 years ago I believe that God told me “I made you a man, be a man.” About a month later O was reading Luke 6:46. This gave me a solid perspective on what God wants as an individual, but I am still not clear with the same sex attraction. God created everything and called it good. We are not to change what God created, but past that I have had no revelations. I can’t explain why I still feel as if I should’ve been a woman or my attraction to men, but God was clear that I should remain as a man that He created and have been blessed for my obedience because of it.
Juergen, if this brings happiness and freedom to you, I am glad for you. Paul writes, “Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves” (Rom. 14:23). As for me, I felt that I lived in prison and lie when I tried to be heterosexual. When I finally accepted my sexual orientation as a gay man, it brought tremendous peace and harmony into my heart. I could never go back to my old life. – As for one’s sexual orientation, there is very little evidence that it never changes (for more detail, see my article).
How sad this article is and your decision. It is written: there is coming a time, and now is, when some professing to be believers in Christ, will not endure sound doctrine, grathering to themselves false teacher, having itching ears. Giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of people being controlled by demons. You want to justify your twisted lifestyle. God is not the author of confusion. He made it to be male and female. Some of you claim to love the Lord want your sin. Men with men working what is not right, and women also leaving the natural use of men. God has given some over to a reprobate mind. There is a way that seems right to a man( or people) but the end is death. You reject the truth for a lie. It is wickedness. You that consider yourselves gay can repent. Take up your cross and follow JESUS. your desire for the same sex is not natural. But JESUS FOR US ALL.. I JUST READ IN Isaiah 55. Seek you the LORD WHILE HE MAY BE FOUND, CALL UPON HIM WHILE HE IS NEAR. LET THE WICKED MAN(WOMAN) FORSAKE THEIR WAY, THE UNRIGHTEOUS PERSON THEIR THOUGHTS, AND RETURN TO THE LORD, AND HE WILL ABUNDANTLY PARDON. You who have chosen such a lifestyle have been deceived. God is not willing that any should perish, but come to repentance and live. It’s not your way that counts, It’s His way. In the Scriptures we read, my ways are not your ways, neither are my thoughts like your thoughts. False people, deceived people, are lying to you and are blinded to the truth. They will fall, and if you follow them, you will fall too. Please, please, please. Open your eyes.
This… this article is so life changing. I myself am struggling really hard to find if I cam indeed be a Christian and a lesbian. I love Jesus with all my heart, but the fear in me says I have to choose between being gay and God. I am 29 years old and have been dealing with this struggle for almost all my life since I was old enough to discover I was sexually attracted to women. Being gay has pushed me away from God… I was very lost for so long because I was told I couldnt be both, but I knew I could not change my sexual orientation. So I abandoned my faith… I have finally returnes to it and again, I am facing these same “homophobia” feelings… lord jesus help me.
Jess, I’m just now reading your comment for the first time. My heart breaks for you. Please remember that regardless of what people may say to, or about you, at least one thing IS clear: God created you in his/her image, and he/she loves you very much, unconditionally. I’m a 52-year-old gay man who struggled to reconcile his faith and his sexual orientation for decades. My studies of the bible in the original languages were instrumental in bringing me BACK to God, and in dissipating the anger I felt because he/she hadn’t answered my prayers to be made straight. I’m now in the place where I am learning just how wonderfully God made me, and I suspect you’re pretty wonderful too. Sending you love and prayers, Jess. Hang in there, and allow God to work in you…
Jess, I am a friend of the author, and live in Toronto. I don’t know where you live, but if it’s in a larger city, I’d strongly urge you to find a welcoming and affirming church, where you will be loved and accepted for who you really are. In that environment, you have the best chance of untangling this thorny problem. My woman partner and I just got married in our church! It was life-giving!
1st I’m writing you in love. Ill be praying god shows you who’s wrong or who’s right.
You have to decide are you going to believe a human man or jesus?
(I’ve had lesbian temptation too) this is what
Jesus said
John 14-15
“if you love me … you will keep my laws”
Jesus always ended with this when meeting someone lost in sin◄ John 8:11
“No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,”Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
“LEAVE YOUR LIFE OF SIN”
“GO AND SIN NO MORE”
So no Jesus did not hang out with people who keep sinning without change of heart.
Ephesians 5:5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or …
… You know very well that no person who is involved in sexual sin, perversion, or
greed (which means worshiping wealth) can have any inheritance
Jesus did not say every particular sexual sin in the rest of the books because the Old Testament took care of that.
And he also made it clear the flesh wants sin but we are to sacrifice it.
Basically he’s telling us not to live in desires of our heart. In Psalms it said the heart is evil and will fool us. So this follow your quotes are actually against the teachings of the Bible.
◄ Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
With all that said the bottom line is you either believe the Bible is the word of god or you don’t. In revelations John is putting down everything Jesus said to him.
Revelation 22:15
15 Outside are the homosexuals, those involved with the occult and with drugs, the sexually immoral, murderers, idol-worshippers, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.”
God doesn’t conform to us. He’ll meet you in your dark place and forgive you every time… but no you can’t lie on the Bible.
Hi Friend,
Thank you for your comments. However, because your comments do to seem to touch directly any of those issues which I raised in my article, I wonder if you ever read it carefully. Please do it and then we can continue this conversation.
My beloved sister in christ.I read your words and felt led to write you.I know God will continue tomwork in your life and I will pray for you.If you are born again then you are saved,but the scriptures you noted have to do with seperation of God in this world.You cant loose your salvation and then get it back,crucifying christ again.I’m mainly writing to you,hopefully you’ll see this,to encourage you i. The Holy spirit to read the bible and pray for a few hours a day to keep your thoughts centered on christ,also finding a ministry to focus on will help too.I struggle with keeping joyful and strife to be like christ,so I watch Arthur blessitt every day on YouTube.He is so full of Jesus that rivers of living waters flow from him to me and I cant help but get joyfull.this is caused by the Holy spirit in me becoming joyfull when Arthur speaks of the wonderful things of christ,etc just like when john the babtist jumped inside his moms womb when he came close to jesus.I dont u derstand a homosexuals problem,but I imagine it is very difficult,but with christ all things are possible.I find that when I get a large dose of prayer,binle,prayer for others and witniessing I feel so full of the Holy spirit I rarely sin.God bless you and all people who struggle with sin.God will transform your mind.
I suggest you read some of the stuff on this website about being Gay and Christian.
http://www.livingout.org/
lovingly, in Christ
I appreciate your struggle. I understand it. The more I meditated on the truth of scripture….that if I fled temptation…..he would deliver me….I slowly was relieved of my same sex attraction. It stems from the fact that I never bonded with my mother. I want intimacy and love from women to fill the void. It has taken years but I am happy and married to a man, and above all, Jesus is there for me every step of the way.
This is by far one of the best articles written on this subject.It can’t get more clearer than this. I was raised a fundamentalist but it took me a long time to realize that just because some people are fundamentalists doesn’t make everything they believe and the way they interpret the texts correct. They refuse to see their error and still read into the text what they want it to say without careful and proper exegesis as is done here. Job well done!
Hi Michael,
I am glad to hear that you found my article very helpful.
very good content, however it felt like a 12 year old wrote it.
Hi Jeff,
English is not my first language and therefore some people may feel like a 12-year old wrote the article. However, all native speakers may not agree with this view. I asked a famous Canadian professor of theology to evaluate my article. In his evaluation, he also commented on my English as follows: “I am impressed with your command of the English language. Your essay is generally written in excellent English.”
Concerning the content of my article, this same professor who is theologically conservative and does not support same-sex marriages wrote as follows: “I have read it carefully, and am impressed by much of what you write. I think you make about as good a case as can be made for an ‘affirming’ perspective on homosexuality from a Christian point of view. You’ve obviously done a lot of research, and thought long and hard about this issue.”
It’s like this faith groups are their as we know for all people from all walks of life. I think you can be. In faith terms we are all gods children that includes minority communities. It’s how you practice it in your life. People in society like to blame faith or being opposed to gays, it’s like this faith provides a peaceful place for people like this, & I only think this positive. faith groups some more than others are affirming. It’s like this their are different ways of seeing this. minority community’s people in society do have time for. It’s like this in faith terms they are allocated members within faith groups. They are included, accepted. Christian love is different. I just feel it’s like this – we must live in harmony with all – & we must intregrate all for the better good. im pro marriage & I feel it’s sadly on the decline in society so all forms Love should be celebrated society viewed equally upon. After all we are blessed with one life, & thus to make another happy.
What we all need is,to be filled with the Spirit of God.Time is short
https://www.focusonthefamily.com/family-q-and-a/sexuality/homosexuality-and-salvation
I believe this article from Focus on the Family provides a clear explanation for this question.
“”Is it possible to believe in Jesus and be a homosexual at the same time?” The answer, as we see it, is both yes and no. Here at Focus On the Family, we take the view that there’s an important difference between feeling gay and acting on those feelings. As with any form of sinful behavior, the transgression comes not in being tempted, but in willfully engaging in activity that is contrary to God’s law. So yes – you can be a Christian and struggle with homosexual tendencies at the same time; but no – you can’t be a faithful, obedient Christian while willingly involving yourself in homosexual acts. Anybody who seriously desires to follow Jesus Christ needs to make it his or her goal to abstain from sexual practices that the Bible clearly identifies as sinful.”
Hi Barb,
Thank you for your comment. I am the author of the article. In my article, I presented theological arguments for gay marriages. Let me now tell you something about my personal experience.
I have been married to another man for 2.5 years, but we have known each other for about 12 years. Honestly, these last 2.5 years have been the best and happiest years of my life. Every day I thank God for my loving and caring husband.
Something very interesting happened on our wedding day. I woke up at night before our wedding day and felt Jesus’ presence. I did not feel at all that he had come to condemn me. Rather, I felt that he smiled at me warmly, and then I fell asleep again.
When I woke up in the morning, the words of the famous Christian song, “This is the day that the Lord has made,” came into my mind. I have never liked this song’s melody and therefore I “never” sing it voluntarily. I have also never sung it with my husband. Anyway, I decided to text message the words of this song to my fiance. After a couple of hours, he responded to my message and told me that the same song was in his mind after he had woken up and before he had read my text message.
Later when I went to the church, I met our heterosexual friend Rachel whom we had asked to speak in our wedding ceremony. I told her what had happened in the morning. She told me that she had written two speeches for our wedding, but until this moment she had not been sure which one she would like to speak at our wedding. Now she knew because in one of these speeches she was referring to the same song that was in my and my husband’s mind in that morning.
Now somebody can say that this experience is from Satan who wants to lead us astray. If this experience is from Satan, then all Christians’ spiritual experiences can be questioned.
It does not really matter to me what people think about this experience or about my marriage because it does not change the fact that God’s blessing is over our marriage.
Hi Barbara, I respect that FotF holds the position that it does, which I long held myself. But I would like to say that it is a deep heartbreak for me that FotF has been deeply unkind in its application of its beliefs. FotF helped to start the Family Research Council which supported the efforts of Scott Lively and others in support of Uganda’s notorious proposal (fortunately not passed into law) to apply a death penalty for homosexuality in its country. Until FotF publicly repents of that effort which it actively supported, it is not credible to believe the FotF actually *loves* its gay neighbor with the love of Christ. After all, Jesus’ direct example in John 7, shows that He caused the crowd to suspended the death penalty for the woman caught in adultery. Why would He not set the same example for the gay man or lesbian woman?
You explained that ex-gay individuals continue to have homosexual desires their whole life,how is that any different than an alcoholic who is sober still desiring to drink alcohol? Having a lifelong desire does not make it any less sinful.
Hi Chelan,
Thank you for your comment. In my opinion, we cannot compare alcoholism with homosexuality for the following reasons:
(1) Alcoholism is a choice, homosexuality is not. I assume you identify yourself as heterosexual. I am sure you agree that you did not choose your sexual orientation. Heterosexuality is part of your DNA, part of your deep-rooted identity. There is no way how you could identify yourself as homosexual. In the same way, some people are purely homosexuals. There is no way how they could be sexually attracted to the opposite sex. Until you realize this, there is no hope you could never understand what homosexuality is about. My article discussed this issue. I hope you read it carefully.
Alcoholism, on the contrary, is a choice. Alcoholists were not born in this way. At some point in their lives, they decided to start drinking and became addicted to alcohol. This addiction caused changes in brains and bodies. Because of this, ex-alcoholists may feel temptations for drinking for the rests of their lives.
(2) Alcoholism always destroys a person whereas living in a faithful homosexual relationship does not. Have you ever heard alcoholists to say that alcoholism has freed them inwardly and made their lives happier than before? Of course not. However, I know several Christian and non-Christian homosexual couples who have experienced deep inner freedom, peace, and happiness as the result of their marriage to a same-sex person. This is Chris’ experience about whom I write in my article. And, this is also my experience. I could never go back to my old life. Ex-alcoholists do not want to go back to their old lives either, but for a completely different reason than my friend Chris and I.
Alcoholism is not a choice, you are born with it same as homosexuality. Some people start drinking and never become addicted others become addicted. Homosexuality is a desire from birth but you choose to act on it just like whether some born with alcoholism chooses to drink or be sober.
Chelan, you really cannot liken alcoholism to sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is part of who you are. It is part of your personality, not a desire. If you a heterosexual, you can call yourself heterosexual. If you are also an alcoholic, you can call yourself an alcoholic too, but you would never say that your alcoholism is part of your personality in the same way as your heterosexual orientation is, right?
In addition, according to Wikipedia’s definition, “addiction [including alcoholism] is a brain disorder characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli despite adverse consequences.” Again, you would never say the same about your sexual orientation, right? (Scholars, in general, do not believe that alcoholics were born with it. See, for example, the following article in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction)
Because your heterosexual orientation is part of your personality, you could never describe yourself as a homosexual because you simply are not that. Even a thought of having sex with a person of the same sex feels disgusting, right?
You can choose whether you want to “act” according to your sexual orientation and marry a person of the opposite sex. Most heterosexual people want to “act” according to their orientation or desire because they believe that this kind of bond would bring them happiness and emotional satisfaction. This desire is not a kind of temptation which you have to resist that it would not destroy you physically, emotionally and psychologically as alcohol does.
The same is true with those who were born with homosexual orientation. They feel that their sexual orientation is part of their personality. For them, even a thought of sex with the opposite sex feels disgusting. I, as a person who is married to a person of the same sex, can testify that this bond has not destroyed me, but, rather, it has made me ‘whole’. I do not know any alcoholists who could say the same about their ‘orientation.’
Drinking alcohol is not a sin.
X, While drinking alcohol is not a sin, overindulging and becoming drunk from it is. The bible states, ” Do not linger long by your wine”.
I’m a recovering alcoholic and a lesbian. I have been sober for 30 plus years by the grace of God. (” He healed by of my disease”.)
I have gone to God many times to change my orientation. As of yet, he has not granted me this change. Furthermore, I do not feel convicted in my heart that my orientation is wrong. I believe God made me the way I am in my mother’s womb.
The main issue here is about homosexual orientation. Stay on the subject
I have 2 very controversial questions about homosexuality (so please don’t get angry at me for asking).
1) What does God think about homosexuality? (Anti-gay congregations claim that Jesus condemns homosexuality while pro-gay congregations claim that Jesus is okay with homosexuality?) Who is telling the TRUTH about this issue? (Different Christians have different views).
2) What percentage of the population is gay? Anti-gay people say it’s less than 1%. Pro-gay people say it’s 10%? Can someone give me the EXACT percentage once and for all?
Thank you! 🙂
Hello,
See my response to your questions under your second posting below.
I should have added this to my original post (under my first question) about different Christians having different views on homosexuality. I read a testimony from one Christian claiming that Jesus led him out of homosexuality (He believes that homosexuality is wrong). Please see this link: https://www.christiantoday.com/article/i-gave-my-homosexuality-to-god-former-gay-activist-met-jesus-and-his-life-was-completely-changed/104473.htm
However, Kari Toppelanen says that he felt Jesus’ presence before his wedding day.
I’m confused… Why does Jesus affirm homosexuality for Kari Toppelanen? But lead another Christian out of homosexuality?
Hello,
To address your questions:
1. As an openly (tho currently celibate) homosexual male, I am currently trying to resolve that question in my own life. This article does a great deal to help me in my move forward. As for the second part, I think anyone would be just as confused and in a simple manner all I can really say is I believe that is all has to do with God’s plan for these specific people. I think its one of those questions that will always allude us really.
2. Researchers of Psychology, specifically within human sexuality, with no pronounced stance on the issue, say that it stands at about 10% of the human population. There is no exact percentage as that is an incredibly hard thing to create concrete statistics.
Hello,
Thank you for your questions. Here are my responses to them:
(1) Not all moral issues are black and white as, for example, Romans 14:1-15:13 shows. In this section, Paul calls certain people “the weak” and the others “the strong”. Those Christians whom he calls “weak” most likely were Jewish Christians and/or Gentile Christians who were deeply influenced by the Old Testament teaching. They thought that they still had to follow some regulations of the Law of Moses, like celebrating certain festivals and avoiding certain kinds of food which were prohibited by the Law. Those regulations were originally given by God. However, Paul was convinced that the Christians did not need to follow those regulations anymore (Rom 14:14). So, clearly, Paul agreed with those whom he calls “strong”, but he did not condemn those at all who disagreed with him on this issue.
Paul recognizes that people cannot always agree on theological and moral issues. His advice is that we should accept different opinions and not judge those who disagree with us. He also instructs that we should not act against our conscience. He writes, “the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin” (Rom 14:23). This verse clearly shows that all moral issues are not black and white and therefore we cannot claim that God is at somebody’s side on those issues. I have applied this this principle into the gay issue in the following way:
Personally, I am convinced that God led my husband and me together. I do not feel guilty when I have sex with him because it happens within a covenant. However, some others are not convinced that the same-sex marriages are from God. If they are not convinced about this, they should not act against their conscience. If they act, they are sinning because their action does not happen from faith, while my action is not sinning because it happens from faith and is based on the conviction that gay sex within a covenant is not sinning.
Our conscience is not faultless. It is not God’s voice in us. Some people feel that certain issues are a sin because they have been taught so. For example, many Catholic Christians believe that any kind of contraception is a sin because they have been taught in this way from their childhood, whereas most Evangelical Christian couples do not feel any guilt for using contraception methods. Who is right or wrong? On whose side God stands? We cannot approach this issue in this way. Personally, I am convinced that contraception is OK, but if my Catholic friend is not convinced, he/she should not use it in order that his/her conscience would not be offended. In the same way, some gay and lesbian people think that gay relationships are wrong while others do not think so.
(2) It is impossible to say for sure that what percentage of the population is gay because some people who how that they are attracted to the same sex would not reveal this to others in any circumstances. Some would not admit it even anonymously. You can read more about this, for example, from Wikipedia under “Homosexuality.”
I came here trying to reconcile a haunting story from my youth. A gay guy at my Christian high-school admitted to his girlfriend that he was gay (he trusted her and thought she’d understand) He admitted this to her after she pressured him for sex-stuff . She flew into a rage and told the entire school. It caused a scandal, he was almost kicked out, his parents nearly disowned him (and encouraged his siblings to do the same) No action was ever taken against the girl, even though she was doing premarital sex-stuff and had a bad reputation.
The gay guy was universally condemned as “lost”, everyone treated him like dirt, yet he never abandoned his beliefs. Outsiders look at the way Christians treat each-other, and they see a bunch of miserable hypocrites.
I want to tell my gay friends to go out and be happy, – to be as happy as anyone in this fallen world can be.
Sin and death warped creation so hopelessly, we’re living in the ashes of what might have been.
We all sin sexually every single day through lust, regardless of whether we act on it or not. (And a male friend once told me that 99.9% of men masturbate, Christian straight men included). You didn’t bring up masturbation, another “normalized”, sin in christian societies. –
– Also, nearly all Christians use “birth control”, which, in the strictest sense, prevents the procreative component of marriage, and goes against nature. How can Christians criticize gays for entering non-procreative, biology defying unions, when they do the same thing?
I don’t know what the solution is. I see people drowning and I don’t know how to help them. I think many gay people think that God hates them personally, and Christian communities do plenty to reinforce this lie. We paint our God as an unfeeling tyrant, which he is not. We devalue his sacrifice and his blood, saying it’s enough to “pay for” some sins, but not enough to “pay for” others. We change the rules mid-game.
Many Christians would tell me I’m going to hell, yet when I see the pain and malice they inflict on each-other, I wonder who will end up there first.
Honestly, as a Christian, I’m afraid to tell my gay friends that “it’s ok” to look for love and find their own peace (I want to, badly)
However, telling them they must live their entire lives alone, forces them to adhere to a much higher standard that 99.9% of straight Christians. Can’t we just agree, that if it weren’t for Christ’s sacrifice, we’d all be burning in Hell TOGETHER ?
First things first, I really enjoyed your article and found that it made a lot of sense to me. However, I’ve read multiple articles on the subject and they all make sense to me but all come to different conclusions. Many condemn homosexuality as a sin, many justify it under the same conditions as a biblical heterosexual relationship. As someone who has many friends who identify as gay as well as someone struggling with their own sexuality, I find it hard to know what is right. These thoughts have made me so worried and so insecure. I struggle to see how God could condem a form of love, especially when, unlike other sins, it causes harm to no one. And yet, I have been told all my life by my parents and the church that being gay is wrong and that unrepenting homosexuals will go to hell. I feel hopeless, like I’ll either have to be rejected by my family and my religion or be lonely and silent. I just want to know what God really thinks, but it’s so hard when the world has so many different things to say. I don’t want to believe the wrong thing and go to hell for doing so. How can I find peace when there are so many valid viewpoints on the subject available? Should I talk to someone else about the subject directly? Do you have any readings to recommend?
Madeline, I feel your pain and hopelessness. I hope my response to Jonathan above gives you some light.
Paul writes, “there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 8:1). We all are theologically more or less wrong. The critical issue is not whether or not we are theologically wrong but whether or not we are in Christ. If we are united with Christ, there is no condemnation.
There are many good theological books on gay issues. You may find, for example, the following books helpful: Mel White’s Stranger at the Gate; Justin Lee’s Torn, and Matthew Vine’s God and Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support for Same-Sex Relationships.
Hello. I’m a 17 year old male.I have grew up in church and I came to know Jesus and I love him with all my heart. Ever since I could remember I have been attracted to men. I have been scared to tell my family because I’m very close with my family and I don’t want my family who I love dearly to hate me, but most importantly I don’t want God to hate me. I have prayed and prayed to become straight but the desire has never went away. I just feel so alone and lost. Do I continue to fight it or stop being miserable and be able to live a peaceful life?
Hi Peyton,
I hear you. When I was young, I did not dare to tell anyone that I was attracted to other men. I thought I would be stoned to death if people in my church or elsewhere would know how I felt inside. I was positively surprised when I finally told two of my closest straight friends that I was gay. They accepted me and continued loving me as before. They saved my life.
My advice for you is that before telling your family about your sexual orientation, surround yourself by straight and gay people who understand you and are capable and willing to support you emotionally if your family is incapable. You can find support groups, for example, within the following organizations: The Reformation Project, Q Christian Fellowships, Gay Christian Network, and Generous Space Network.
I’ve been battling with this for so long I don’t know what to think anymore. I gave into it for a while but I was also living a sinful life filled with lying, partying, etc. so it felt easier to not care. Now that I am a mother and trying to live a better life I find it harder to accept who I am, that I like both men and women. Even wonderful articles such as this one that should leave peace in my heart don’t help me: I stay conflicted and scared. I want God to love me the way I am and I know He does, but I’m scared if I act on my desires I will go to Hell. I know if I could just accept it I could find peace but I can’t no matter how many articles I read, how often I pray..I have no solid answers in my spirit.
Hi Jane, you are not alone. To reconcile faith and identity is a journey, especially in our culture that tells us that some people’s sexual orientations are sinful while others’ are not. There are many resources on this site that we hope will serve as guiding posts on your way. In addition, our friends at http://www.QueeringTheKindom.com will be glad to chat with you if you’d like to send them a message through their website.
In the meantime, in case you need to hear it: God loves you so much, and God loves you exactly the way you are. No exceptions.
Dear Kari Tolppanen, First I would like to comment about the person who said; “very good content, however it felt like a 12 year old wrote it”. They should of stopped at very good content? They agree with your content and position, but had to find a reason to fault you with something. For no better reason than to violate Jesus commanding us to love God with our whole heart and soul & to love our neighbor as ourselves! I apologize Kari that this person could not love you as we are called to love one and other. To me that is how a bully behaves!
You have written an excellent article & backed it up with extensive research! I do not know any 12 year old who could have written this. I hope and pray you are considering writing a book. I believe you would bring comfort and peace to millions of people all over our world.
In Christianity they present the principal of Justification. Basically it is the belief that God loves you just the way you are, just as if you have never sinned, JUST THE WAY HE MADE YOU. I work at a ministry that focuses on pouring the Love of God into children from broken homes. Amazing how children can love unconditionally & more important how Jesus told us unless we can be like a child we will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
A good reason exist why gathering a statistic on what percentage of humans are born homosexual is near impossible. You mentioned it in your article, the reason is Fear! I believe the enemy can’t touch us but his main weapon is to get inside our minds and hearts with Fear.
I have read all the comments here and began crying for the pain that has been thrust upon anyone born homosexual. You are beautiful in God’s eyes and He loves you the way he made you.
Our world can relate to sympathy because when you see some one loose a loved one you are able to relate to their pain or sorrow because you have, or can someday expect to go through the same pain or loss. What I have found harder to come by is empathy. Empathy is entering into someone’s pain or suffering, when you would never expect to be in that situation ever! Jesus came to earth, entered into our pain and suffering and took all of humanities sins to the cross, because God loves us so much He could not leave us here helpless.
Interesting how Christians can understand how God loves them the way He made them (Justification) but so quickly turn around and say to their neighbor “God Loves me, but not you, because you are different from all us Christians who follow His way”. I call that being Judgmental and I believe in the end it is God alone who will judge us.
Jesus spent the majority of His ministry with sinners and was mocked and criticized for doing so. Personally I would rather die with sinners than live with saints any day. Most Christians are the first to take their own wounded out and kill them, then call it Mercy! I believe they are confused with being justified and judgmental, and lack understanding that choosing to be Christian means trying to live Christ like!
My last point I hope affirms your belief about how the Holy Spirit tied you, your husband and good friend together, regarding the words to the song the three of you had put on your hearts at the same time! I can tell you that you did have the Holy Spirit come to all three of you too show you that God was in the midst of your marriage and had planned it from the day you were born.
This is the day the Lord has made let us rejoice and be glad in it!
Matthew 11:28-30 says: Come to me all you who are heavy laden and burden and I will give you rest. (This first rest in the Greek is translated to mean Stop, don’t move, and yield). Take my Yoke upon you for I am meek and humble of heart. (Over 3000 years ago, those in charge of building the pyramids understood that by combining one animal or man with another animal or man, they could do the work of 3. It is actually the principle of synergism and the only place in the world of physics where 1 + 1 =3. Jesus invites us to not work as hard if we yoke our lives to His. Ecclesiastes 4:11-12 addresses 1 + 1 =3 in relationship to marriage: Again, if two lie down together, they will keep warm; but how can one keep warm alone? And though one may be overpowered, two can resist. Moreover, a cord of three strands is not quickly broken.). So by joining man with man, woman with woman, or woman and man, here God joins us in a communal way. Paul chose celibacy or was given the gift but moreover mankind was made to be with others. And finally, you will find rest for your souls, (This 2nd rest in the Greek is translated to spiritual recreation or regeneration).
I implore any of you who are reading this article and anything else you can find, to somehow quiet the Fear the enemy has frozen you with in darkness. To come out of the cold dark and stand in the warm light, and know that God loves you for whom you are. If there are people in your life who would bring you down for who you are, turn your back to them and walk away for they are evil! And you will be walking straight into the arms of Jesus Christ your Savior. Instead of attaching a label to yourself, as far as Jesus is concerned HE calls you A NEW CREATION, HIS LOVED CHILD!
MAY THE LORD BLESS YOU AND KEEP YOU SAFE AND IN HIS PEACE!
Hi Kevin,
Thank you for your truly encouraging comment. When I was writing this article, I could not imagine how much hope and comfort it could bring to many people.
Is it okay to love a man even I am a man too? we both love each other and we are with God even though we know our relation is a sin. but the real question is , can we enter to God’s kingdom?
I grew up in a large Christian family. My childhood was happy and very care free. My parents were very supportive of me and all my siblings. I love my parents very much because they have always been there for me. From early on in my adolescent years I knew there was something different about me but I pushed those feelings way down because this life style was totally wrong and sinful in my surroundings. I married my high school sweet heart to prove to the world that I was indeed normal in every way. I love her very much but I feel at times I am living a lie to her and myself. We raised 4 wonderful children and are now empty nesters however I still struggle daily with this issue….alone.
Your article is very accurate with regards to my experience. Why would I choose to be gay with all I have going for me… I would never ever choose to be this way…I hope and pray I can live out this life and never reveal my true identity because it will totally devastate this family. Daily prayer is the only thing that keeps me moving forward…one day at a time. Thank you for your article and insight.
Blessings and Kindest regards.
Dear Cal,
I can sense the pain you experience. Please do not remain alone with your struggle and pain, but join Christian support groups. In addition to RM Network, please find a list of other similar organizations above. Remember Jesus’s words, “The truth will set you free” (John 8:32).
Thank you Mr.Tolppanen. I read your entire writing and cried throughout. My teenage daughter is struggling with her sexual orientation. As a Christian attending a strict fundamentalist church, I would not dare bring up what she is going through with any church leader or member. I have seen it before. The judgment. Your article gave me hope and answered alot of my questions. I so dearly love my child and it is killing me that there are so many out there who would say she cannot be saved if she is a not hetersexual. Thank you for you work and love. I ask anyone reading this comment to pray for my daughter and countless other teens and young adults who want to be their genuine selves as God created them to be.
Dear M.D.,
Your daughter is lucky because she has a Christian parent who truly loves her and wants to support her in her struggle. Unfortunately, not all LGBTQ people are as lucky as your daughter. I know several who have been cast out from home when they revealed their sexual orientation to their Christian parents. What a shame! – Not only your daughter but you also need support. You may want to visit the website of Strong Family Alliance (https://strongfamilyalliance.org).
Thank you for this article, truly. I have struggled with my sexual orientation for years because of my faith. Raised in a strict but loving Christian household, I have always tried to ignore or suppress my attraction to other women because I felt it was wrong and that my heart was just full of sin. This internal conflict drove me to abandon my faith in my young adult years because I couldn’t live with all the guilt I felt about these inner and secret feelings. I have recently turned 30,I turned away from God about 10 years ago but I truly have such a desire to go running back to Father God and experience that love and acceptance I remember hearing about but never truly allowed myself to feel because my sexual orientation always made me feel so guilty that I was a bad or evil person. As much as I want to embrace my faith again,I also know I cannot continue to suppress my feelings towards other woman and I need to be able to accept and love myself the way that God created me. I have been searching to find some basis or hope within the scriptures that I can have both – the love of my Lord and Savior and a happy and healthy relationship with someone I truly love. Your article has helped give me back the hope I felt was lost to me for so many years. Even now I can feel tears welling up as I start to wrap my mind around the fact that I am still one of God’s children and falling in love with another woman cannot change that. Thank you for that.
Hi Allie, we’re so glad that God has stirred in you a renewed desire to go running back to God. You were made in God’s image, and your sexual orientation is as natural and beautiful a part of you as your smile, your eye color, and all the other parts of you. Keep following our blog and our social media outlets if you’d like to stay in touch with more encouraging materials to feed your soul.
My article has fulfilled it purpose if it draws even only one LGBTQ person back to God. Allie, welcome home. I have been praying for you.
Hi
I really appreciated this article and the fact that you respond to peoples questions. I am in New Zealand. I have done Living Waters (an Exodus type program – for a year!) and sincerely wanted God to rid me of my attraction to other males. It didn’t happen. I now go to a very gay affirming Baptist church and have a much more honest life, and I have NO doubt God loves me just as I am. Please if you are LGBT+ never forget that you are loved by God.
I also made a documentary about some of the scriptural issues which some of you may find helpful. It’s at http://www.timeforlove.co.nz
Dear Kari,
I am glad that you remain a Christian. Your article here is very understandable – and how you expressed Biblical issues in English so well. I’m glad that you included scripture verses to support your studies and interpretations. I will have to spend more time looking these scriptures up.
Homosexuality is not love; it’s perversion and the end result of rebellion, according to the Bible (Romans 1:18-32) so your argument is not sound. Take a look at Leviticus 18:6-24. All of them are sexual sin. Explain how vs 22 is ok but all the others are still wrong? Also, you should keep in mind that pedophiles believe society will someday believe that’s ok because homosexuality is now considered ok. Do you really want to open that door?
Hi Miss Andi,
According to Paul’s definition, real love is this: “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no records of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres” (1 Cor. 13:4-7, NIV). I know many gay couples who show this kind of love to each other. Some of them have lived together for decades. The love between gay couples is as real as it is between straight couples. Do you actually know any gay couples in person; especially those who have lived together for a long time?
Somebody just recently sent me the following message: “This is a very interesting and informative article. I am studying the arguments in it and the scriptures. I am praying about my mindset as to whether homosexuals must repent and abstain from a homosexual lifestyle to be saved and enter heaven. I am Southern Baptist and know where most of my fellow church members stand on this issue but I have my doubts. I have some former neighbors and friends who are in a homosexual marriage and they have a child. They have a loving monogamous relationship….” If you knew any gay couples like the person who sent me this message does, perhaps you would also start to doubt if your view is correct. However, if you are afraid of finding the truth, then it is better not to make friends with gay people.
Also, did you actually read my article carefully? My impression is that you only skimmed it fast because you seem to miss my main points. Please read it again and thoughtfully.
We cannot defend pedophilia in light of Paul’s definition of love. I write about this issue in my article in the context of the Greco-Roman culture.
I am a heterosexual Christian female that have been for a while thinking a lot about “human’s morality” and “God’s morality”. Your article made a lot of sense to me. Do you think this same line of thought could be applied to sex outside marriage? Of course, as you well pointed out, promiscuity does not fall under the love your neighbor law, but what about sex within a faithful, respectful and loving relationship, but outside marriage? If we think about what is cultural and what is God’s will for us, can’t marriage also be regarded as just cultural, and thus sex outside marriage could be a human created moral code?
My question has anything to do with myself trying to find a justification to have sex before getting married, as I’m already married. But it is just an example of things that the Church condemns as sin that I struggle with, as well as the theme of homossexuality.
On another note, I heard this from the mouth of some of my gay friends: they see many people becoming gay because of social pressure (in the city I was living in, there was a boom of people coming out within a short period of time) and they also say it is extremely hard to find someone that is willing to have a faithful relantionship. I would like to hear your thoughts about that.
Thank you!
Hi Agatha,
Thank you for your comment and interesting questions. I will start with your last comment/question. – I live in Toronto, which is regarded as one of the highest concentration centers of gay people in the world, but I have never heard of people saying that they become gay because of social pressure. To be honest, this kind of claim does not make sense to me. Could you imagine that you would be able to become gay because of social pressure? I was not able to become straight – although I tried hard for years – because of social pressure.
Some gay people are not willing to live in a faithful relationship. This is also true regarding some straight people. My question to gay people who complain that they cannot find a partner who would be willing to live in a faithful relationship is that where you are looking for your partner. If one is looking for him/her in a gay bar, it could be difficult to find such a person there. The same may be true with those heterosexuals who are looking for a life partner in striptease bars. I know gay couples who are not faithful to each other, but I also know many couples who, as far as I know, have already been living in a faithful relationship for decades.
The issue of whether sex within a faithful, respectful and loving relationship but outside of marriage is acceptable definitely divides opinions within religious communities. Ancient Hebrews, including Abraham and Jacob, had two kinds of spouses: the wives of the first status and concubines. Abraham’s first wife was Sarah and his first concubine was Hagar. Jacob’s wives were Leah and Rachel, and his concubines were Bilhah and Zilpah who were also slaves of Jacob’s wives. When a Hebrew man took a wife of the first status, it happened in the context of the public recognition of the spouses’ families and friends (see, for example, Gen. 24:49-67 and 29:27), but when a Hebrew man took a concubine, no ceremony was necessarily involved. In Abraham and Jacob’s cases, their wives suggested that their husbands would sleep with their slaves and get children through them. However, both types of “marriages” were recognized by common custom at that time.
At our time, many people argue that there is no actual difference between common-law couples and married couples if the intention of the common-law partners is to live according to the same standards as the married partners are assumed to live, e.i. loving each other and being faithful to each other until death separates them. I agree with this view. There are still many countries where gay people cannot officially marry each other, but if two people faithfully live together, in my opinion, this relationship is as valid as the relationship of the officially married couples. However, if getting officially married is possible, why then not to marry?
I asked a pedophile, a person who lived with a man without marriage, and person with multiple wives and a person who felt the need to change wives regularly to sign a paper that said he wouldn’t do that. HE said he wouldn’t unless I would. Now we have pedophile having sex with children, a person having sex without God’s holy union, a person having multiple wives and a man changing partners regularly. But, it’s all ok, because that was their tendency, and it wasn’t fair for them to not do the things that their flesh cried out for. Even though Christ said to give up your fleshly life and take up your cross and follow him, these people decided that their sinful flesh was the supreme authority in what was right. “There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end, thereof, are the ways of death.”
Reve,
If you had read my article, you would know that I do not defend pedophiles or any other form of behavior which hurts others and is against the principle of loving your neighbor as yourself.
Olen surullinen siitä, että annat vääriä vastauksia homouden kanssa kamppaileville.
Miten ajattelet, että olet oikeassa tässä asiassa?
Voiko sokea taluttaa toista sokeaa?
Itse olen ex-bi/lesbo.
Sain rauhan kun kävin Jeesuksen kanssa asiat läpi ja ymmärsin etten voi elää synnissä jos haluan taivaaseen.
Pääasia minulle on seurata Jeesusta Kristusta ja päästä taivaaseen.
Janet Boynes ja hänen yhteisö auttoivat minua tässä kamppailussa myös.
Hei Maria,
Mukava saada palautetta myös suomalaiselta lukijalta.
Voisitko ystävällisesti osoittaa, mitkä artikkelini KESKEISET VÄITTEET ovat harhaanjohtavia ja epäjohdonmukaisia, ja millä tavalla? Kaipaan hyviä perusteluja; ei ainoastaan viittauksia kokonaisuudesta irtiotettuihin raamatunjakeisiin.
Itse elän onnillisessa ja uskollisessa avioliitossa toisen miehen kanssa. Olen Jumalalle hyvin kiitollinen puolisostani. Koen myös, että elän lähellä Jumalaa. Ajoittain Jumalan Henki täyttää sieluni ilolla ja riemulla siitä, että saan olla Jeesuksen seuraaja.
Jos itse et voisi elää hyvällä omallatunnolla vastaavassa liitossa, silloin älä toimi omaatuntoasi vastaan kuten Paavali opettaa (Room. 14:23).
Uskon, että homoavioliittoasiaan voidaan soveltaa Paavalin opetusta Roomalaiskirjeen 14. ja 15. luvuissa. Jotkut Roomassa asuvat kristityt pitivät joitakin ruokia saastaisina ja siksi eivät voineet syödä näitä ruokia loukkaamatta omaatuntoaan. Paavali – vastoin Mooseksen lain opetusta – väittää, ettei mikään ruoka itsessään ole epäpyhää. Tietyn ruuan syönti tulee synniksi vain sille, joka pitää tätä ruokaa epäpyhänä (Room. 14:14, 20-23). Siksi Paavali kehoittaa kristittyjä seuraamaan omantuntonsa ääntä, mutta hän ei myös salli, että se, joka pitää jotakin epäpyhänä, tuomitsee toisen kristityn, jolle tämä sama asia ei ole epäpyhä.
Unlike the article states about straight persons, I got to know (3) gay men, two as co-workers and one as a tenant who rented an apartment from me. All three persons were carrying a large baggage of anger. I never met a happy gay so I am of the opinion the term is a misnomer. All three of my acquaintances were seething with anger. The tenant almost was successful in committing suicide. I understand he had a sore red inflamed anus. Since knowing this I have concluded that a smelly male organ, extracted from a inflamed overused anus, is not a beautiful thing. I understand the principles of the development of an argument and this article sounds too much like the twisted thinking and conversations found in dysfunctional homes. It seems that the gay community is not happy unless everyone thinks like they do. You have no tolerance for the straight position. The name of your organization eludes to your attitude, “Rise and Resist”. Your reference to the Bible verse found in Romans is only two verses and you call them “Pauls’ words” If you want to be intellectually honest you should read the section Romans 1-18-32. If you want to be intellectually honest you need to read articles from both sides.Being gay is only a symptom of a greater problem, the default setting of mankind is being angry at God.
Below is a classic article on how Homosexuality was changed from a sickness to being normal in the MDS.
(I hope it fits)
In honor of June, “Gay Pride” month, I re-post
the classic 1995 essay by Charles Socarides, a psychiatrist
who treated hundreds of gays over his 40-year-career
and cured about a third.
Until 1975, homosexuality was recognized for what it is, a developmental disorder. The massive crusade to mainstream homosexuality is characteristic of Satanism, which pretends that sick is healthy and unnatural is natural. It is irrefutable proof society is satanically possessed. Mankind has been colonized by a satanic cult,Freemasonry (Illuminati) which is a proxy for the Cabalist Jewish central banking cartel. Our political, economic and cultural leaders are traitors, factotum for the satanist banking cartel that controls society through credit.
Under the ruse of “gay rights,” the Illuminati elite wages a nasty, disingenuous attack designed to undermine heterosexual institutions and values. We have compassion and often affection for individual gays who often are very talented. We oppose the Illuminati plan to subvert society by spreading this disorder until it becomes the social norm.
“We must introduce into their education all those principles which have so brilliantly broken up their order…We shall destroy every collective force except our own.” Protocols of Zion 16 Collective forces include race, religion (God), nationhood and family (gender.)
Part One: “How America Went Gay”
from Feb. 8, 2014
by Charles Socarides M.D.
(Edited & Abridged by henrymakow.com)
For more than 20 years, I and a few psychiatrists have felt like an embattled minority, because we have continued to insist that gays aren’t born that way.
For most of this (20th) century, we have considered this behavior aberrant…a pathology. We had patients who would seek out one sex partner after another-total strangers-on a single night, then come limping into our offices the next day to tell us how they were hurting themselves. Since we were in the business of helping people learn how not to keep hurting themselves, many of us thought we were quietly doing God’s work.
Now, in the opinion of those who make up the so-called cultural elite, our view is “out of date.” The elite says we hurt people more than we help them, and that we belong in one of the century’s dustbins. They have managed to sell this idea to a great many Americans, thereby making homosexuality fashionable and raising formerly aberrant behavior to the status of an “alternate lifestyle.”…
HOMOSEXUAL REVOLUTION ORCHESTRATED
How did this change come about? Well, the revolution did not just happen…
altman.jpgIt was all part of a plan, as one gay publication put it, “to make the whole world gay.” I am not making this up. You can read an account of the campaign in Dennis Altman’s The Homosexualization of America. In 1982 Altman, himself gay, reported with an air of elation that more and more Americans were thinking like gays and acting like gays. There were engaged, that is, “in numbers of short-lived sexual adventures either in place of or alongside long-term relationships.” Altman cited the heterosexual equivalents of gay saunas and the emergence of the swinging singles scene as proofs that “promiscuity and ‘impersonal sex’ are determined more by social possibilities than by inherent differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals, or even between men and women.”
Heady stuff. Gays said they could “reinvent human nature, reinvent themselves.” To do this, these re-inventors had to clear away one major obstacle. No, they didn’t go after the nation’s clergy. They targeted the members of a worldly priesthood, the psychiatric community, and neutralized them with a radical redefinition of homosexuality itself. In 1972 and 1973 they co-opted the leadership of the American Psychiatric Association and, through a series of political manoeuvres, lies and outright flim-flams, they “cured” homosexuality overnight-by fiat. They got the A.P.A. to say that same-sex sex was “not a disorder.” It was merely “a condition”-as neutral as left-handedness.
HATRED, INTIMIDATION & INTOLERANCE
This amounted to full approval of homosexuality. Those of us who did not go along with the political redefinition were soon silenced at our own professional meetings. Our lectures were cancelled inside academe and our research papers turned down in the learned journals. Worse things followed in the culture at large. Television and movie producers began to do stories promoting homosexuality as a legitimate lifestyle.
gaypride.jpg[“For some years now, gays have been disrupting our meetings, shouting down people trying to deliver their scientific papers, threatening individual doctors like myself…The gay activists have a ferocious irrationality. They turn every scientific agreement into a political issue — which is all they can really do since the only science they have going for them is pseudoscience.”Homosexuality: A Freedom Too Far pp.153-154]
A gay review board told Hollywood how it should deal with or not deal with homosexuality. Mainstream publishers turned down books that objected to the gay revolution. Gays and lesbians influenced sex education in our nation’s schools, and gay and lesbian libbers seized wide control of faculty committees in our nations’ colleges. State legislatures nullified laws against sodomy.
If the print media paid any attention at all, they tended to hail the gay revolution, possibly because many of the reporters on gay issues were themselves gay and open advocates for the movement. And those reporters who were not gay seemed too intimidated by groupthink to expose what was going on in their own newsrooms.
And now, what happens to those of us who stand up and object? Gay activists have already anticipated that. They have created a kind of conventional wisdom: that we suffer from homophobia, a disease that has actually been invented by gays projecting their own fear on society. And we are bigots besides, because, they say, we fail to deal with gays compassionately.
Gays are now no different than people born black or Hispanic or physically challenged. Since gays are born that way and have no choice about their sexual orientation, anyone who calls same-sex sex an aberration is now a bigot. Un-American, too. Astoundingly now, college freshmen come home for their first Thanksgiving to announce, “Hey, Mom! Hey, Dad! We’ve taken the high moral ground. We’ve joined the gay revolution.”
BRAINWASHED
ball2.jpgMy wife, Clare, who has an unerring aptitude for getting to the heart of things, said one day recently in passing, “I think everybody’s being brainwashed.” That gave me a start. I know “brainwashing” is a term that has been used and overused. But my wife’s casual observation only reminded me of a brilliant tract I had read several years ago and then forgotten. It was called After the Ball: How America Will Conquer its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 1990s, by Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen.
That book turned out to be the blueprint gay activists would use in their campaign to normalize the abnormal through a variety of brainwashing techniques once catalogued by Robert Jay Lifton in his seminal work, Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of Brainwashing in China.
These activists got the media and the money to radicalize America-by processes known as desensitization, jamming and conversion. They would desensitize the public by selling the notion that gays were “just like everyone else.” This would make the engine of prejudice run out of steam, i.e., lull straights into an attitude of indifference.
They would jam the public by shaming them into a kind of guilt at their own “bigotry.” Kirk and Madsen wrote:
All normal persons feel shame when they perceive that they are not thinking, feeling, or acting like one of the pack….The trick is to get the bigot into the position of feeling a conflicting twinge of shame…when his homo-hatred surfaces. Thus, propagandistic advertisement can depict homophobic and homo-hating bigots as crude loudmouths….It can show them being criticized, hated, shunned. It can depict gays experiencing horrific suffering as the direct result of homo-hatred-suffering of which even most bigots would be ashamed to be the cause.
Finally-this was the process they called conversion-Kirk and Madsen predicted a mass public change of heart would follow, even among bigots, “if we can actually make them like us.” They wrote, “Conversion aims at just this…conversion of the average American’s emotions, mind, and will, through a planned psychological attack, in the form of propaganda fed to the nation via the media.”
TH.jpgIn the movie “Philadelphia” we see the shaming technique and the conversion process working at the highest media level. We saw Tom Hank’s character suffering (because he was gay and had AIDS) at the hands of bigots in his Philadelphia law firm. Not only were we ashamed of the homophobic behavior of the villainous straight lawyers in the firm; we felt nothing but sympathy for the suffering Hanks. (Members of the Motion Picture Academy felt so much sympathy they gave Hanks an Oscar.) Our feelings helped fulfil Kirk and Madsen’s strategy: “to make Americans hold us in warm regard, whether they like it or not.”
Few dared speak out against “Philadelphia” as an example of the kind of propaganda Kirk and Madsen had called for. By then, four years after the publication of the Kirk-Madsen blueprint, the American public had already been programmed. Homosexuality was now simply “an alternate lifestyle.”
Best of all, because of the persuaders embedded in thousands of media messages, society’s acceptance of homosexuality seemed one of those spontaneous, historic turnings in time-yes, a kind of conversion. Nobody quite knew how it happened, but the nation had changed. We had become more sophisticated, more loving toward all, even toward those “afflicted” with the malady-excuse me, condition.
By 1992 the President of the United States said it was the time that people who were openly gay and lesbian should not be ousted from the nation’s armed forces. In 1993 the nation’s media celebrated a huge outpouring of gay pride in Washington, D.C. Television viewers chanted along with half a million marchers, “Two, four, six, eight! Being gay is really great.” We felt good about ourselves. We were patriotic Americans. We had abolished one more form of discrimination, wiped out one of society’s most enduring afflictions: homophobia. Best of all, we knew now that gay was good, gay was free.
Part Two “Gay is not Good”
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Note – A sign of things to come. Searched Google images for “gay zealots” and all I got were anti-gay zealots. They are filtering perception.
Socarides was a co-founder of NARTH, National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality.